60 seconds with segun ogunwale: “we are managers or leaders at certain points in our lives, rarely both at once.”

I have a very specific memory of Segun Ogunwale: It’s sometime around 3 a.m., it’s just started snowing again in Vienna; it’s freezing; and four or five of us from the Drucker Forum are crammed into a cab headed from our center-city hotel to the airport. No one is fully awake. I’m not sure anyone is even talking. We’re just a bunch of people who had spent the last few days exchanging big ideas, now silently trying to make very early flights home to various places around the world. I remember thinking: This is a once in a lifetime cab ride. 

Segun was one of those people at the Drucker Forum and one of those people in that cab. 

We met through the Global Peter Drucker Forum community, and I’ve followed his work ever since. He builds digital learning experiences for students and professionals, particularly across Africa, and thinks a lot about the future of work, skills, innovation and what it actually takes to bring big ideas to scale.

There’s something he says in this conversation that I keep coming back to: “People cannot give what they don’t have, nor can they aspire to standards they have no glimpse of.”

That idea – about exposure, possibility and giving people a glimpse of what could be – runs through so much of Segun’s work. And it feels especially fitting for someone working toward reaching one million young African learners.

So, seven years after that very early cab ride in Vienna, and on the eve of the 2026 Peter Drucker Global Forum, I wanted you to meet and learn from Segun. 

— meg

toth shop (ts): In 10 words or less, tell us what you do and what you're thinking about these days.

Segun Ogunwale (SO): I build digital learning to support students and professionals. These days, I am thinking about the changing world of work, skills, innovation, infrastructure, and all things in between.

ts: Tell us a little bit about your experience with the Drucker Forum and the Drucker Challenge. What’s the Peter Drucker quote or work that you will always carry the flag for? 

SO: The 2019 Drucker Forum was a defining moment of my professional life. It was my first contact with an international festival of ideas that provided an opportunity to meet emerging and established minds in management thinking, certainly far more diverse than where I was coming from. It provided an opportunity to meet people I wouldn’t have met at that point in my life. It also gave me the confidence to own and develop my ideas.

I have many Peter Drucker quotes that I live with, but one that encapsulates many of them is: “Management is doing things right; leadership is doing the right things." Many often think it’s about the latter being superior to the former. But rather, I think it’s about recognising which phase of life or work you are in and taking the right approach. We are managers or leaders at certain points in our lives, rarely both at once. 

ts: This year’s Drucker Forum is focusing on next-generation innovation. From your perspective, how do organizations create the conditions for ingenuity instead of simply asking people to "be more innovative"?

SO: Recognise ingenuity. Celebrate it. Reward it. Give them a chance to shape your offerings – be it products or services. As a founder, I am also learning it is imperative you give your team the exposure they need. People cannot give what they don’t have, neither can they aspire to standards they have no glimpse of. This is where exposure, not just the education, comes in. It often leads to an appreciation for what they have, a challenge to do more, or inspiration for new ways to go. Exposure includes travel, new roles, and new challenges.

ts: What tends to extinguish ingenuity inside an organization, even when its leaders say they value innovation?

SO: An organizations’ priorities, what is celebrated, and what is rewarded. Leaders like parents often forget that actions matter more than words. It’s often not enough to keep messaging about innovation while nothing changes about how we do business. Organizations must acknowledge those simple improvements and new thinking coming from within. It can start with amplifying new ideas in meetings or sharing in the internal communication channels. But that won’t be enough. Giving these new ideas platforms to thrive or fail also counts.

ts: Can an organization truly innovate if it continues to tell the same story about who it is and how it works?

SO: No. An organization’s origin story may remain the same, but an organization's innovation is often reflected in the changing trajectory of its story. An organization must be able to tell NEW stories. This newness can only come from doing something new. Not necessarily new success but a kind of new thinking. And sometimes to innovate, an organization may have to start by telling its people new stories to inspire them.

ts: Every person we interview answers this same question last. Mile 18 is generally considered to be one of the hardest miles in a marathon. You're hitting a wall. You're forced to dig deep. What's Mile 18 in your line of work—or at a point in your career—and what do you tell yourself when you find yourself in the middle of a Mile 18?

SO: As a builder of digital products in the EdTech space, getting to the first 1,000 engaged learners was hard. The next 10,000 was harder – took us 4 years to get to in 2025. But here we are hitting more than 30,000 in 2026. 

Our ultimate goal is to reach more than a million young African learners across the continent. This Mile 18 is called scale in our industry. The population out there makes it seem easy, but the journey sometimes just looks impossible. I tell myself that we need to keep going while learning, experimenting, and adjusting strategies along the way. And being anchored with a reminder that this is the kind of impact that will bring not just economic gains but long-term fulfillment.